Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. You are wise to use a cement board. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. The colour is different. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. To line niche shelves, for instance. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice This is the traditional tile backer. Also - use a good thinset. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. I also used the Kerdi drain. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. See the foam bench and the corners. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). Go with smaller bags or only mix half. How did this project turn out? If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Kerdi Membrane Installation (Step-by-Step Installation Guide) Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . ! How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Step 1: Measure the area. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. Anytime Mongo. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Best Cement Boards for the Shower - The Spruce Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Personally, I like standard drywall. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com Gettin' a little delirious. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. The mortar does . Fixing that is not that easy though. Maybe try another brand of thinset? More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. I'm thirsty. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? Hi.I have a unique situation. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. We sponge water onto the cement board. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! 3. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. It fell right off? Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Yes. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com I usually use Durock. Redgard is a similar product. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. Caulk the gap. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. The shower is ready for tile. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower? - Terry Love Plumbing Advice We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. I would get someone else. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? I appreciate your help and your quick response. rev2023.3.3.43278. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. I imagine we could share some good stories. Will add it in. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Step 3: Apply Thinset. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Find the website that's made specifically for you. the cost of the tile job. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. rev2023.3.3.43278. Can You Put RedGard On HardieBacker Board? - Next Modern Home We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. The 30-in. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. When installing KERDI with . Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. I simply sponge off the excess. You peeled it off? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. . Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available.