Understanding Niall of the Nine Hostages & Descendants - Facebook Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450. Niall exiles him to Scotland. In my case, my maternal line, traced through mitochondrial DNA that I inherited from my mother (thanks Mom! See: High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland by Jan Battles in the Sunday Times of Ireland of January 6, 2006; and If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve by Nicholas Wade in the New York Times of January 18, 2006. Niall of the Nine Hostages - Celtic Wedding Rings Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450.[4]. It is his (Niall's) family.". [9], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. Daddy of Ireland: The Ireland, carry a specific Y-DNA pattern called the M222 sub-clade. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I wish they'd get rid of that stupid badge. The less well-known story has it that they were taken from the Airgialla, a once powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh and Tyrone. Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - hughmckenna.org Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. According to legend, Niall led one of the most powerful and enduring Irish kingdoms and it has been suggested that because of high rates of Irish emigration to North America and other parts of the world, up to two or three million men descend from Niall! 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. Following the genealogists' trail McVoy comments: "There are certain surnames that seem to have come from Ui Neill. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. ), told me that Im a sub-type of a lineage called H6a (specifically H6a1b). But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. Yet how often out of evil cometh good. 23andMe does test for this marker, so they are telling you you are M222+. ), I can investigate my paternal line, which is traced through DNA on the Y chromosome and passed from father to son. Niall of the Nine Hostages - FamilyTreeDNA Forums Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and implied this was associated with Niall's dynasty. He formed an alliance with the Scots and Picts and sent ships to plunder England, Scotland, Wales, and France. tales as these old hag transformed by physical intimacy of a young man are When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. The sept stronghold was at Durna Shelca, near (Carnfree) in County Roscommon. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels. Paternal lines are inherited through the Y chromosome, which only men have. [3] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. Granted my great great great great paternal ancestor was unknown, and his son took his mothers name (which is my last name). [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. part of France), King of Ireland. If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. [3] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379-405, [4] and the chronology . For more information, please see our [9][10], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. They worshipped a ram god and sometimes called themselves Ghaisonli ('spear-men'), possibly to compete in propaganda with the Lagini ('lance-men'). Niall exiles him to Scotland. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping ofSaint Patrick (ca. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. [12] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish for "having nine hostages"), or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated the northern half of Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th . In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. Niall of the Nine Hostages | Legendary Irish High Kings Sep 12, 2021. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Cookie Notice A son of Niall, who succeeded his father at Tara circa 427-430, welcomed St. Patrick to his court in 432. The story then becomes confused. The newspaper articles are based on a dissertation: A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland by Laoise T. Moore and Brian McEvoy, with Eleanor Cape. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. 4) [S10166] "Possible parents of Naill by Brian Tompsett 23 November 1997". Lastly, is it more likely British or Irish? List of haplogroups of historic people - Wikipedia His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. [17] The Scottish Clan Ewen of Otter, Gilchrist; Clan Lamont; the MacSorleys of Monydrain,[18] (of Clan MacDonald of Dunnyveg a branch of Clan Donald); Clan Maclachlan; Clan MacNeil, and the MacSweens all claim a descent from an Irish prince of the O'Neill dynasty, nrothn Ua Nill/Anrothan O'Neill, son of ed, son of Flaithbertach Ua Nill, King of Ailech and Cenl nEgain, who left Ireland for Kintyre in the 11th century and died 1036. the way of these old tales, she's not just unattractive, she's positively Among the plunder captured by the band of warriors dispatched by Ireland's King Niall of the Nine Hostages was a 16-year-old boy named Succat. Because the numbers of men Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui Niall of the Nine Hostages - Irish Genealogy Toolkit Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late . The Genographic Project Team, who conducted the study, returned to County Mayo to reveal the ancestry results of 100 local residents who participated in the Gathering Ireland event in June 2013. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. became High King. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. [3 ] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. If Irish Claim Nobility,Science May Approve - The New York Times [5] Byrne, following James Carney, is a little more precise, dating his death to c. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. Often this information is passed down through family stories, for instance, my mother claims to be a quarter Irish and so Im apparently one-eighth Irish. [3]:70, T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Eoghain, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. 23andMe says I have paternal ancestry from Niall of the 9 Hostages Learning about our ancestry is particularly fun when we can toast to it. [4], A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the 11th century saga Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). The story then becomes confused. [2] He was himself the grandson of King Conn of the Hundred Battles. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. Fiachrae gives her a quick peck, but not enough to satisfy her. These Connachta later extended their power eastward into the plain of Meath, and under the leader Teutovalos Teachtmhar overthrew the kingship of the Lagini at Tara around AD 300. Cookie Notice The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. These raids did much to weaken the power of Rome in Britain and France. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. A significant proportion of By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland by the Four Masters, from the Earliest Period to the Year 1616, eDIL: electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language, Aided Chrimthainn meic Fhidaig 7 Tr Mac Echach Muigmedin, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages&oldid=1139858317. [3]:7678[7]:220. Niall established a dynasty of powerful chieftains that dominated the island for six centuries. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Legaire, High King of Ireland+ d. 463 (1), http://www.thepeerage.com/p11402.htm#i114018, -----------------------------------------------, Further information: U Nill descendants. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. I welcome your input, feedback and support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], English: Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. [11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. 6) [S9890] Your Family Tree, gives this spelling and the info that he was the 126th Monarch of Ireland.. 8) Download, http://www.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal. Irish DNA links to Vikings and Niall of the Nine Hostages Niall's legendary military skill was on a par with his sexual prowess. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. [9], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. After obtaining obedience from the Picts, his next foreign raid was into Britain. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestige - until they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. the sea between France and England. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. the brothers, Fergus, goes off to look for water and comes upon an ugly hag. M222 signature to the mid-5th century when Niall of the Nine Hostages may His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Haplogroup R-CTS11824 Niall of the Nine Hostages : r/23andme | Home Page | Disclaimer | Contact | Sitemap |. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Crypto 'We were honored to be invited by the Mayo County Council to participate in The Gathering, Ireland 2013,' Alexander Moen, National Geographics vice president of Explorer Programs, told the press. [4] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. The signature is especially I descend from the same Sephardic Jewish clan over a dozen times. After the death of Niall of the Nine Hostages, one of his sons, Laedhaire, Niall established a royal dynasty which dominated the island for six centuries. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. well-known story has it that they were taken from the Airgialla, a once [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Niall exiles him to Scotland. [2]:70, A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). She By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Niall of the Nine Hostages, King of the Connachta and our stories say that the future St Patrick was among hostages taken from one such geneticists collected a number of samples from men across Ireland. As he lands a passionate kiss, the ugly hag transforms into Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking [3]:81, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. The story then becomes confused. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages") [1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, theeponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinsterare not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. 76-78[6]:p. 220, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. There is a similarity in both names that it is likely it is the same person. We studied if there was any association between those surnames and the genetic profile. . hunting with his four brothers. The less His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. There are two stories to identify Niall's nine hostages. For more information, please see our In the highly patriarchal society of medieval Ireland, their status allowed them to have outsized numbers of children and spread their paternal lineage each generation. Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish high king Lugaid Logde, in Arthurian legendone of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleand in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. [4], [edit]L egendary biography[edit ]Early life, Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. In The paternal DNA lineages were less diverse likely as a result of the early dominance of a few male leaders like King Niall of the Nine hostages, as well as to the historical influence of the Viking raids from across the North Sea. Some clarity would be welcome if anyone has done extensive research on this pedigree. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. County Mayo residents were fascinated to learn that there is Viking DNA in their makeup, a fact discovered thanks to the National Geographic. Distant view of Round Tower at Glendalough 5) [S10138] "High Kings of Ireland e-mail address". The Eochaidh who shot the fatal arrow had been King of Leinster, was banished to Alba by Niall, and accompanied Gabhran, Scots Kings #5, chief of the Dal Riada, when Gabhran took troops to France to support an expedition of Niall. And ocean trembled stuck by hostile oars". [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. He also led successful raids against Roman Britain & Scotland (some We've all technically got "common ancestor" with Niall because we've all got a common paternal ancestor. Are McKenna's descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages? [6] Indeed, Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". For it is said his was the host referred to by the Roman poet, Claudian, when in praising the Roman general, Stilicho, he says Britain was protected by this bold general. Written by the creator ofIrish Genealogy ToolkitandIrish Genealogy News, 'The Family Tree Irish Genealogy Guide' is full of advice, tips and strategies to ease what can be a challenging journey. 1 Reply Ziff-A-Dee-Dew-Law 4 yr. ago Niall reigned for twenty-seven years before being killed by the arrow of a rival, Eochaida, the deposed king of Leinster. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Can I trust a Haplogroup from 23&Me? - WikiTree G2G Home - Niall of the Nine Hostages - sites.google.com A complete list will be found at Ard Rthe na hireann / High Kings of Ireland A list of the early Kings is in Adam through Kings of Ireland and Scotland To English Lines A list of the High Kings of Ireland after Niall Nogillach of the Nine Hostages will be found in the Periphery of Francia (See also Adam through Kings of Ireland and Scotland To English Lines and Irish Genealogy To trace the descent from Heremon, the son of Mil, go to The Sons of Mil on the Early Family web site. Moore et al. hostages from the family of neighbours and under-kings. Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. predominant, while the M222 pattern is found in 8.2% or one man in twelve. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. [5] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[6] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. Please enable JavaScript in your browser's settings to use this part of Geni. The Picts tired of Nialls' ways and attacked the small Lirsh colony of Dalriada, which is now Scotland. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. [5] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. (Remember that women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosome). A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? century. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. Macneil clan shocked as DNA checks force rewrite of history GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. Our DNA tests indicate that we "share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages." According to 23andMe.com, "The spread of haplogroup R-M269 in northern Ireland and Scotland was likely aided by men like Niall of the Nine Dedicated to helping YOU discover your Irish Heritage. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. revealed that as many as three million men living today may carry his y-DNA of Niall's promiscuity (a trait that, according to Celtic thinking, went hand Press J to jump to the feed. Moore, Laoise T., Brian McEvoy, Eleanor Cape, Katharine Simms and Daniel G. Bradley, O'Grady, Standish H. (ed. His mother appears to have had much influence over his elderly father which helped Niall gain supremacy over his elder half brothers from Connacht. 215. Niall of the Nine Hostages was so named because in his early reign he consolidated his power by taking hostages from opposing royal families. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Most of the Milesian kings ruled from Tara. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill.